Gordon: My Hebrew name is Schmuel or sometimes called Hymie Schlahme, but I believe it was Schmuel a Hebrew name I was given. I can’t tell you a middle name.

Interviewer: What’s your full English name?

Gordon: Samuel Cohen Gordon.

Interviewer: Do you know who you were named after?

Gordon: After my mother’s father who was Samuel Cohen.

Interviewer: That’s where the Cohen comes from?

Gordon: And the Samuel.

Interviewer: And the Samuel.

Gordon: Right.

Interviewer: Do you have memories of your grandparents?

Gordon: I have memories of one, my mother’s mother who lived for, who probably died when I was about three or four years old. I just remembered she had white hair and long white hair and she was very thin and tall and wore dresses as did most people in those days.

Interviewer: Can you tell me the names of…now this was your mother’s

Gordon: My mother’s

Interviewer: Mother’s.

Gordon: My mother’s mother.

Interviewer: And what was your mother’s father’s name?

Gordon: Samuel.

Interviewer: Right. That’s who you’re named after. And what about your father’s parents, their names?

Gordon: Rosa and Jacob.

Interviewer: OK. Tell me where you were born.

Gordon: I was born in Columbus, Ohio, September 20, 1923.

Interviewer: And where did your family live when you were born?

Gordon: My family lived at 607 East Rich Street.

Interviewer: That was a popular neighborhood. We’ll talk more about that as we go on. What was your father’s occupation when you were born, doing for a living?

Gordon: When I was born my father was a deputy sheriff with the sheriff’s department. My father probably became a sheriff in 1917 after having been on the Columbus police force from 1899 to 1917 when he had been disabled.

Interviewer: What was he disabled from?

Gordon: He was kicked in the leg while taking in a prisoner as to the best of my knowledge, and my father had diabetes and did not heal up very well. He was sick most of, he died when I was 11 years old. Most of my recollections of my father was him being ill. He was very ill the last couple of years of his life.

Interviewer: Let’s fill in with your family. Tell me about your siblings who, you want to start with the oldest one. You’ve told me you’re from a large family.

Gordon: I’m the youngest of 10 children. My oldest brother was Jack or Jacob who was 17 years older than I, and if you add two years to each of our lives it will almost hit the nail on the head for all of us.

Interviewer: Almost a mathematical equation.

Gordon: Right. My brother Jack was a top salesman, the top salesman in the United States for Pound Persona Blade Company in the 30s and 40s. He went on the road when he was 17 years old, the year I was born, he went to work. My next brother…

Interviewer: Let’s stay for Jack for a few minutes. Did he marry?

Gordon: Yes. Jack married.

Interviewer: And his wife’s name?

Gordon: Yeah, his wife’s name was Selma. He married in the late part of 1944.

Interviewer: And did they have children?

Gordon: No.

Interviewer: And where did they live?

Gordon: Chicago and St. Paul.

Interviewer: And who’s after Jack?

Gordon: David. David Meyer Gordon, called as most people knew him Mick or Make. He was two years younger than Jack and he went to medical school at Ohio State University and I believe became a doctor in 1932. He practiced in Mt. Vernon, NY which is in Westchester County, until…he died I believe in 1991.

Interviewer: And was he married?

Gordon: He was married in about 1933 and had three children.

Interviewer: And who were they?

Gordon: Myra, Michael and Joseph. They are still around.

Interviewer: And where do they live?

Gordon: Myra lives in, her residence is in Canada but she travels the United States; she’s a chemist. Michael is in Pennsylvania, Lancaster, Pennsylvania; he’s a radiologist. And Joseph is in Mt. Vernon, NY; he’s a school administrator and teacher I believe.

Interviewer: And after David?

Gordon: After David it was Ruth. Ruth graduated Ohio State University as a social worker and in the mid 30s immigrated to Wichita, Kansas and passed away in 1965. She was I believe the first female president of her temple in Wichita, Kansas.

Interviewer: That’s an accomplishment. Did she leave family?

Gordon: She had no children.

Interviewer: Did you say she was married?

Gordon: She was married, her name was Yas…she was married to Henry Yaboroff. Mick was married to Grace Aronson.

Interviewer: OK. After Ruth?

Gordon: After Ruth was, I had one brother, Karpel, who died when I was two years old. He died at the age of 12, he had rheumatic heart fever and so he was 12 at that time and I believe Ruth was older than he, I’m sure she was, so he was probably next in line. And next after him was Florence. Florence graduated Ohio State, and married Dr. Joe Kaplan and they lived in Cleveland...

Interviewer: Did she have family, children?

Gordon: In 1938. No, no, no, no. He got his degree in 1938 and she was married in 1941 I believe. They had two children, Susan, Susie and Howard. They both live in Cleveland. Howard’s an [?] and Susie’s retired.

Interviewer: And after Florence?

Gordon: And after Florence was Ellen. She worked after she got out of high school and supported the family. She was a wonderful, wonderful person, but everybody else was either going to school or making livings. My father was very, very sick, and when he became sick she went to work, worked for Koehler Brothers Plumbing Company on the East Long Street across from Daisy Levison’s pawn shop. She moved after my mother died in 1944 to Wichita, Kansas where she married Adolph Brick and she passed away in 1989 after being in Heritage House in Columbus, Ohio eight and half years. She has one son, Bobby, Robert Brick.

Interviewer: Where does he live?

Gordon: He lives in Columbus.

Interviewer: Brick is spelled as it sounds?

Gordon: As it sounds.

Interviewer: And after Ellen?

Gordon: Ellen, was Russ, Russell. Russell after getting out of the Air Force and graduating from Ohio State moved to Wichita, Kansas and went into the business with my sister and her husband, Brick’s Menswear, which was a very, very fine men’s clothing store. Russ died four years ago.

Interviewer: Not too long ago.

Gordon: That’s right.

Interviewer: Did he live in Kansas?

Gordon: Yes, he lived in Wichita, Kansas.

Interviewer: Did he have family?

Gordon: He had two daughters and a son. All of whom are still living.

Interviewer: And wife?

Gordon: Lois. His wife was Lois and she was from Columbus and Lois died three years ago.

Interviewer: OK, and after Russ?

Gordon: After Russ was Esther. Esther Naomi Gordon.

Interviewer: Sounds familiar.

Gordon: Right. And Esther graduated from Ohio State as a social worker and I believe she worked in Cincinnati for a while and married Dr. Hyman Greenfield about 1944 and lived in Memphis, Tennessee for about 40 years, and moved to Morristown, NY and now lives with her youngest daughter in Morristown. She has a daughter Janie and a son Gary. Janie lives Memphis; Gary lives in Potomac, Maryland.

Interviewer: You’re keeping track of your nieces and nephews.

Gordon: I keep in touch with them. I call them on a regular basis. My next oldest brother Mick did that and after he passed away I sort of took that over.

Interviewer: That’s a nice trait.

Gordon: We’re very close. Like the Schottensteins a very, very close family and we still are.

Interviewer: Well, there’s nothing more valuable than that for sure. And then after Esther?

Gordon: Esther was Lawrence whose wife now calls him Larry. We always called him affectionately, Petey; always called him Petey. He after getting out of the service had a jewelry store across from Town and Country, Gordon Jewelers and moved to Florida about four or five years ago, and lives there most of the…all year long.

Interviewer: And he’s married to who?

Gordon: Ida Wolpert.

Interviewer: And who are their children?

Gordon: Their children are Scott Gordon and Joanne Gordon who got married two years ago and I can’t tell you her last name right now.

Interviewer: She lives in Cleveland, is that correct?

Gordon: She lives in Cleveland, right and she’s a school teacher.

Interviewer: And Scott lives?

Gordon: And Scott lives in Columbus in Pickerington. He’s in computers.

Interviewer: That’s a popular occupation these days. And we have a couple of more to go. After Larry.

Gordon: That’s all. Well, there’s Sam, that is I am Sam, Sam I am.

Interviewer: Sam the man. OK, we got that all together. That’s a beautiful family.

Gordon: I hope I didn’t mss any body.

Interviewer: Well, I can account for nine here.

Gordon: There were ten. Jack, David, Ruth, Karpel, Florence, Helen…

Interviewer: You’re right, I got it.

Gordon: You got them all.

Interviewer: We got them all. I didn’t want to leave any body out.

Gordon: Please.

Interviewer: That’s great we got them covered. You were born in Columbus.

Gordon: Incidentally I did mention that Russ and Larry were in the service as was I and also as was my next older brother David.

Interviewer: We’re going to talk more about military service as time goes on here, want to get this family picture all put together. What do you remember or do you remember your father and mother talking about where they came from?

Gordon: I don’t remember them having spoken at all because my father died when I was 11 and he was sick for many years. I have no memories whatsoever.

Interviewer: Where were they born?

Gordon: We don’t know for sure where my mother was born. We’re working on a family history right now. My father was born in Basagovia, Lithuania and came to this country I believe in 1892 and don’t know if you want anything else about that.

Interviewer: Well, what ever you can tell us about the family history.

Gordon: He came into Columbus in 1892. I spoke to the historical society about six or seven years ago with most of this information. Came here with his father who was naturalized in 1895. I have those naturalization papers. Then he also came with his brother and sister. His brother was Dr. Elijah Gordon of Columbus, and his sister was Elena Rosenfeld, mother Myron, Dora and Zal and Marion Rosenfeld. I did get the 1910 census when I was in Utah and at that time my father lived at 601 East Livingston which is the intersection of Livingston and Parsons which is 601 Parsons which is also at that intersection where Bobb Chevrolet is. In the census it showed that my father was living there with my mother and my father’s mother and living with my father also was his brother Dr. Gordon and his sister Elena Gordon and three children, three year old Jack, Jacob and a one year old David and an infant Ruth. And that’s where they lived at that time.

Interviewer: They all were in that one house?

Gordon: Yes, the rest of them lived there. And that was very common as you know in those days.

Interviewer: Sure. They had to come some place and help each other out.

Gordon: That’s right. The story that I had gotten that had come down the line was that my father I believe in Parkersburg, West Virginia. I don’t know for sure how he got there. We don’t know yet. His father sent him to find a Jewish community where, you know, there would be a synagogue and the like. And I don’t if he was suppose to go to Pittsburgh but somehow he ended up in Columbus and contacted his father and said I found a house very close to the shul which was Agudas Achim which at that time was not on Washington and Donaldson but maybe further west on Donaldson or maybe on Fifth and Main wherever Agudas Achim was at that time.

Interviewer: So that was before Donaldson as a lot of people would..?

Gordon: Yeah, before Donaldson. And so he told his father I found this house and he was 17 years old at that time. They moved to Columbus on the strength of what he told his father. Later on in the year 1905 the Agudas Achim on Donaldson and Washington was completed and I’ve been told by many people, most of whom are gone now, that my father was the moving force of erection for the Agudas Achim Synagogue on Washington and Donaldson. Frank Nutis reminded me of that several times. Frank’s father was friendly with my father. So my father was secretary of the shul for many years and very, very active as was my mother.

Interviewer: This is real valuable information in giving us some community history as well.

Gordon: Do you want a little more community history?

Interviewer: Yeah, if you can give from that.

Gordon: I can’t give you the date but there was a delicatessen which most people knew as Hess’ Delicatessen on the corner of Washington and Main, on the southeast corner. Before Hess bought that which was some where in the 1920s people named Wiver owned it. It was a Felix Wiver. I don’t know his brother’s name or the parents. Those Wivers two years before Hess bought it from Wiver, the Wivers bought it from my father who originally had that delicatessen. My father, as I said, was on the police force and also became a deputy sheriff and but he also had a delicatessen somewhere I can’t tell you in the 1920s.

Interviewer: So he operated the deli as well as doing all the other?

Gordon: Yeah. He may have done both at one time because you know he had a big family so they worked you know my older brothers and sisters worked there.

Interviewer: Everyone pitched in.

Gordon: Yeah, but I don’t remember it at because I was probably five years old at the oldest and maybe he may have deposed of that many years before that.

Interviewer: Do you happen to know what the name of the store might have been?

Gordon: Gordon’s.

Interviewer: Gordon’s.

Gordon: Gordon’s Delicatessen. It’s kind of an unusual name (laughter).

Interviewer: Well, I have to tell you it’s the first time I’m hearing about Gordon’s Deli.

Gordon: OK.

Interviewer: And it’s really interesting because it leads us into the next deli stage which even I remember, Hess.

Gordon: Right. Well, Hess was next. Well, second after.

Interviewer: Tell us a little more about what you remember about Hess.

Gordon: I really don’t remember anything about the deli. You mean about Hess itself?

Interviewer: Yeah, after your father.

Gordon: After my father had it I was told by the old-timers that going back that it was the place in town to go, it was the hangout and they use to come down from the university, the students and the professors, you know, to get a corned beef sandwich or whatever. I went in to Hess many years later when Dorothy and Morris Hess owned it before they moved out on East Broad Street near Gould.

Interviewer: Right. I remember that.

Gordon: That was quite a hangout too.

Interviewer: You mentioned that several members of your family and you also went to college. Tell us a little bit about, or as much as you can remember, about your education, your family’s education, yours, in terms of elementary school, high school and college. Let’s start with you, what schools you went to.

Gordon: I went to Ohio Avenue School on the corner of Ohio and Fulton. After that I went to Roosevelt Junior High School for one-half a year and went two and half years to Franklin Junior High and three years to East High School, Columbus East.

Interviewer: And you graduated from East?

Gordon: From East, graduated from East. And went to Ohio State, went in the Navy, went to Ohio Wesleyan University pre-midshipman school and…

Interviewer: Did you get your degree from Ohio State?

Gordon: No, I didn’t get my degree. I went to, I didn’t get, I lacked a quarter of getting a degree. But I went to work after I got out of the service. I was a single, didn’t have any family in Columbus at that time, any immediate family. But I went to Ohio Wesleyan, I went to Cornell, got my naval commission at Cornell, then after the service I went to Ohio U. for a couple of weeks and was injured and dropped out of school at that time.

Interviewer: Injured at Ohio U.?

Gordon: At Ohio U.

Interviewer: And your sisters and brothers that were educated at college. A lot of them had college educations.

Gordon: Yes.

Interviewer: How were they able to manage that?

Gordon: Everyone helped in our family. Every body helped. In fact, when I got out of the service my brothers and sisters all got together and wanted to send me, you know, to help supplement me with the G.I. Bill and so forth. And I chose to do otherwise. But I my oldest brother sent my sister Esther with whom I’d had just spoken to on the phone; I told you when you came here. And he sent her through school. They use to help the family because 10 children was a large family.

Interviewer: A lot of responsibility and financial responsibility.

Gordon: Right. Everybody helped. I remember my brother Russ worked for Schiff Shoes when he was in high school, in the summer, he was making $19 a week, he gave me $2 a week voluntarily. I didn’t know why but our family was always very close and would never think of not helping some one else, family or otherwise. My mother and I have so many other people if I’m going into too many details tell me.

Interviewer: No, that’s fine.

Gordon: But there were people at our house, there was never a stranger that at our table, outsiders and the family. I remember a fellow by the name of Dave Grossman from Pittsburgh got ill, he was going to university with my sister Florence, my brother Russ; he got ill and my mother insisted that he come out to the house and she nursed him to health. It took her two weeks. Anyhow, I run into people all the time said "Oh, I used to be out to your house all the time."

Interviewer: Pretty interesting when you think about how our houses were then. They probably were three bedroom or so houses. I know Bernie was raised in a house where there were four bedrooms and one bathroom and nine children and two parents, and somehow they all got through it.

Gordon: We had the same thing. There was the same thing. As I said I had one brother when I was two months old, but there was always eight, nine, ten people in our house. We had four bedrooms. We had an unfinished attic and some of us, my younger brother Larry, Petey, slept up there and everybody else doubled up. And we had one bathroom.

Interviewer: But you weren’t missing anything?

Gordon: No.

Interviewer: Or you didn’t know you were missing anything.

Gordon: That’s right. We were poor and we didn’t know it because it was normal for a lot of people in the neighborhood.

Interviewer: Sure. What about some of your neighbors? Can you tell me a little bit about your neighborhood? Do you remember people there?

Gordon: I remember most of the people in the neighborhood. There was an older couple and their children lived next to us and their grandchildren named Roberts, that was at, we lived at 498 South Ohio, they lived at 500. And I think it was at 502 South Ohio, was Harry Margulis and Lena Margulis and Julius Margulis and Ruth Margulis, Edith Margulis and Leon Margulis. They lived two doors from us. Catty corner from us lived the Liebermans, Harold Lieberman, not the optometrist. But he moved out of town, Harold and Norma and the Peers lived on the other corner from us. The school was on the other corner. So, yes, I probably knew everybody a block each way of us on every street.

Interviewer: What synagogue did your family stay with?

Gordon: Agudas Achim.

Interviewer: And you, where do you belong now?

Gordon: I belong to Temple Israel. I joined Temple Israel after I was married in 1951. My wife was brought up in a very Reformed temple in Youngstown, Ohio and it was a lot easier for her, and I no objection at all and I’ve enjoyed our membership at Temple Israel.

Interviewer: OK. Can you tell us about, going back to your old neighborhood; we’re trying to get a picture of that, what were some of the places that as kids you hung out at, if you had time to hang out? I know kids started working when they were very young.

Gordon: Well, yes, we worked I remember at the age of 12 selling shopping bags down on Central Market. Bought the shopping bags from Mr. Luper on Washington just north of Fulton near Mound and they sold for a nickel at that time. I remember I had an excellent day; I made $11 one Saturday.

Interviewer: You remember that.

Gordon: I remember that cause the average income back at that time was eight or nine dollars. But it was Christmas time and people were in a festive mood.

Interviewer: Now, were these paper bags?

Gordon: Paper shopping bags with handle on it, you know. Sold for a nickel and cost us two cents. And…

Interviewer: Had to sell a lot of them.

Gordon: So, as I said, we all worked. I went to work, we carried papers, my brother and I, my brother Petey and I, carried newspapers, sold newspapers. I sold them on the corner of Broad and Ohio Avenue. Used to sell 16 of them a day. They sold for a penny; we made a half cent a piece. We made eight cents a day. We use to average 75 cents to a dollar a week. But that was decent money back then.

Interviewer: Yeah. Gave you something to go on.

Gordon: There were a couple of confectionaries in the…in our…a couple of doors from us. Ohio Avenue school was directly across from us and in the summers as children we use to play softball quite a bit, and most of the boys I grew up with and my brother, Petey, were mostly Catholics, went to Rosary and St. John’s about two blocks south on Ohio Avenue. And there were a few Jewish boys. I said the Margulises and then Eddie Fisher and a few others. And probably our biggest hangout was Sloan’s Drugs on the northwest corner of Main and Ohio Avenue which was owned by Ted Scholonsky which was in the late 1930s. And Ted would open in the morning and closed at like 10 o’clock at night. We were there seven days a week. He was one of the finest gentlemen I ever knew, Ted Scholonsky which was Sam Scholonsky’s brother and he had a son, Joe Scholonsky and he has a daughter, I don’t know what her name is. Those were our hangouts.

Interviewer: Those were good recollections.

Gordon: Right.

Interviewer: What about as a youngster, do you remember; well, let’s talk about your bar mitzvah.

Gordon: Right.

Interviewer: Do you remember your bar mitzvah? How you were trained?

Gordon: Well,

Interviewer: Did you have a bar mitzvah?

Gordon: Yes, I had a bar mitzvah. I’ll try and talk about it. I was trained by Rabbi Hirschbrum; used to go to his house on 18^th Street right near Childrens’ Hospital. And, in fact, I have a letter here in my house that was written to my brother in New York telling about the bar mitzvah. My mother having written to my brother an in the letter she relates the party we had at our house which at the time was 213 South Ohio which was the first house north of, behind the Mettermorrow Apartments behind Bryden and Ohio.

Interviewer: What were the apartments?

Gordon: The Mettermorrow Apartments which were very nice, very nice apartments. And, she told my brother about the bar mitzvah and who helped her prepare for the bar mitzvah. I can’t tell you exactly what, but Rose Reuben, Mrs. Saul Reuben, Mrs. Lou, and Bertha and Bunny and Pauline’s mother made a cake. And Goldie Reuben, Mrs. Max Reuben, made another kind of a cake and that was in this letter that I have. It was a sad time for us because my father had died in ’35 and I was bar mitzvahed in ’36, just a year and a couple of months later.

Interviewer: So it made it hard to get through.

Gordon: Very difficult.

Interviewer: But you had a lot of family and friends around?

Gordon: Oh, yes.

Interviewer: Tell us some more about your relatives. You mentioned some way back at the beginning of our interview. Cousins, aunts, uncles?

Gordon: I’ve got the Rosenfelds living in Columbus. I’m sure you know Mayer Rosenfeld who is director of the Jewish Center, executive director, and his brother, Zal, who bequested some very fine funds to the Jewish Center. Dora, sister Dora, who I still see regularly, who is the director of the Columbus Cultural Arts Center. The sister, well, Rosalie, lives in New York; Mayer still lives here; Zal passed away. My first cousins were the Franks, Mel Frank and I imagine you remember Mel Frank who was married to Augusta Frank who was a concert pianist. They had Frank Insurances or Insurance Company. And Mel was a councilman in the early 1930s in Columbus; ran for mayor I believe in 1930 and lost to Myron Gessleman, who became the mayor. I remember him; I was just a little boy probably eight or nine years old. The anti-Semitic literature that printed in some back alley down near Grant and Main; terrible anti-Semitic literature, you know, about the Jews and Mel Frank.

Interviewer: What was the year?

Gordon: About 1932.

Interviewer: Things were starting to stir up in Europe.

Gordon: Yes, right. And then Mel had several sisters and a brother. Most of them had moved to New York. We were very, very close. The last of them, three of them passed away within the last four years, and that was the end of the Frank family. There were only two offspring because they only had two children and in that entire family; they just didn’t have children for whatever the reason may be; there’s only one child left of all those children, one passed away several years ago.

Interviewer: So that’s a branch that will not propagate?

Gordon: Right. And that was the Frank family. That was my mother’s sister’s children. And their father’s name was Sam Frank who was in the produce business here in Columbus. And we had relatives who I wouldn’t know who were close to my parents and my older brothers and sisters. There were the Buricks from Dayton, Ohio, Rabbi Burick, and they’re still around and one Burick, Esther Burick, I believe, was married to S. Myron Gurvitz in town, and she now lives in, I believe, Dayton.

Interviewer: How do you spell Burick?

Gordon: Burick.

Interviewer: And you mentioned your uncle way back, you want to…

Gordon: Yes, my uncle Lies, my father’s brother, Dr. E.J. Gordon, who to my knowledge was the only Jewish, only Jew who was the chairman of the College of Medicine of Ohio State University ever since before or after his tenancy which I believe was about 1925 to 1937, he was chairman of the College of Medicine. Dr. Edelman, he got Dr. Edelman on the staff of the university and my uncle was I think in 1927 was featured in an article in Time magazine, which I have the original article, for some work he did with anemia in testing it in certain animal organs. He was outstanding; I don’t know how many people, five or six people that I know of, can mention by name, who said he saved their lives. He was a diagnostician and an outstanding physician.

Interviewer: I know he went to beyond being an outstanding physician; he was a great community leader too.

Gordon: He and my Aunt Reva were know internationally for their philanthropy and their work, good works; which I just put into possession of my daughter, Jodie Scheiman, a lot of things that will be going to the historical society, showing my aunt worked through HIAS bringing the new Americans in the late 30s and 40s and not only Jews but non-Jews too who were displaced and brought to this country. I have got communications showing about money, I guess ransoms that had to be put up, about $2000, $1000, and about a lot of people who are now in the community, Columbus community; how they got here and where they went to work and even how much they got paid when they…you know a lot of them went to work for Yenkins and Schottensteins and Leo Yassenoff, Gilberts, the Union, different places.

Interviewer: They found a niche for everyone to work and find their own way.

Gordon: Right. And my…and the Jewish Center which was the Schonfeld Jewish Center was at 555 East Rich Street, and directly across the street from the Schonfeld Center was Talmud Torah, the Hebrew School. Right next to the lot, sitting on the same lot is the Schonfeld Center which was at 555 East Rich, was a building at 571 East Rich which was the Jewish Orphanage and which later my aunt turned into the 571 Shop which was a teaching unit to teach the new Americans trades like sewing, cooking and baking. There was a bakery there and people use to go down and buy baked goods which my aunt was very proud of because the Wilhelmson was an outstanding bakery in Columbus.

Interviewer: Sam, I’m going to cut you short here because we’re at the end of…

Gordon: 571 Shop my aunt was, took exceptional proud in a lot things about the 571 Shop, and my wife and my children and I were very, very close to my aunt and uncle, both of whom died in 1963.

Interviewer: Did they have children?

Gordon: They did not have children. They loved children. We very close, they were at their house, I was with them several times a week. My aunt died in May and my uncle died in September I believe.

Interviewer: Of the same year?

Gordon: Of the same, 1963. Any how she was very proud of the 571 Shop, as I said, because of the baked goods. She used butter (laughter), not oleo. Any how that’s that story.

Interviewer: Oleo wasn’t what it is today cause oleo had a different…

Gordon: Connotation?

Interviewer: Yeah, when we first, in our youth it was something during the war and they had to mix the color in.

Gordon: Was it called lard?

Interviewer: No.

Gordon: OK, oleo.

Interviewer: Oleo margarine.

Gordon: I remember mixing, people mixing the…

Interviewer: It was white and had, it was just grease. Well, we won’t talk about that any more. Is there any more you want to share about your aunt and uncle? I know they were super-special people in this community and really made their mark and left so much love and devotion here and I know you had a special relationship with them.

Gordon: Right. It was honorary, and president and honorary lifetime president of the Jewish Center; president of Hillel. My daughter Jodie and her husband Jeff have established a cultural series, can’t tell you exactly, but they established it just this year at Hillel. In fact, the first program they had was Madam Sadat spoke up there about a month and half, two months ago at Hillel. So, my uncle, that was very close to his heart.

Interviewer: Before we get any further, I don’t want to forget this, I know I won’t forget, but this is a very important part of this whole interview. Want you to tell us about your family, your immediate family, your children, grandchildren.

Gordon: Well, I’ve got three daughters, the oldest is Jodie Scheiman, the second in age is Lisa Schwager, who’s husband is Harvey Schwager, and the youngest is Amy Gordon.

Interviewer: Starting with Jodie, she has children? Did you tell us her husband’s name?

Gordon: Jeff.

Interviewer: OK, tell us what both Jeff and Jodie do.

Gordon: Jodie is a stockbroker to my knowledge dealing mostly in bonds, government bonds, and municipal bond sand so forth.

Interviewer: What company is she with?

Gordon: She is with Paine Webber and she’s been with them I think about nine years. She was previously with a company called Blount, Ellis and Lowy and at that time was chosen as one of the ten outstanding brokers in the United States of America by a national broker magazine, I can’t tell you what the name is and she’s still doing very well. She’s very active in the community; she’s president of the Temple Israel, she and her husband are very active in the AIDS Task Force here in Columbus. They have fundraisers every year and I think they went six or seven years ago when they got involved in it from raising $50,000 one year to raising this last year close to $300,000. Jodie was a Women of Achievement in Columbus last year; one of the six or eight Women of Achievement. She’s had many honors. Jeff owns SOS Productions which is a video production company on Harmon. He does a lot of commercials like Big Bear, Schottensteins, Red Roof; you know, it varies. And he does a lot of public service work also; I mean he volunteers. He’s very active, he’s chairman of the CCAD, the Columbus College of Art and Design; very community minded also.

Lisa, they have two children, Jordan who was just bar mitzvahed a week ago, two weeks ago in Israel and will have a bar mitzvah here in October, I think the 19^th. We all, almost the entire family, Amy was not able to make it, went to Israel. There were a group of thirty of us, close friends of Jodie’s and Jeff’s and our families, and Jeff’s parents also went there. And Lisa…and I said that’s Jordan and they have a daughter Jamie. Jamie’s two years younger than Jordan. And she’s a very active adorable little girl like all children.

Interviewer: Where do they go to school?

Gordon: They go to Academy. Both of them go to Academy.

Interviewer: Columbus Academy?

Gordon: Right.

Interviewer: And they live in Bexley?

Gordon: They live in Bexley, right.

Interviewer: OK.

Gordon: Lisa and Harvey live in Bexley, their children go to Cassingham. Harvey is an architect and he’s with Mark Feinkoff.

Interviewer: Did you give us Harvey and Lisa’s last name?

Gordon: Yes, Schwager.

Interviewer: And how do you spell that?

Gordon: Schwager. Harvey’s from Cleveland and he’s worked with the Federation and he was on the board of the Jewish Center so he’s been very active and he’s a very nice, very nice guy. Lisa’s a marketing director for Physicians Insurance Company out off of Route 256, I can’t tell you, and 201. She’s been there 12, 14 years.

Interviewer: They have children?

Gordon: Yes, she and Harvey have two children, Adam’s the oldest and Daniel. They’re about nine and seven. And they’re active in athletics and do very well in school and very precocious children. But like I said all grandchildren are. And Lisa is active at the Center and is active on committees at the Temple and I said they are very civic minded also.

Amy has, she’s now, she just got a job with a company I can’t tell you the name of the company but she’s been pretty disabled physically. She has a physical problem, so she hasn’t been able to get out too much. We hear from her regularly. We’re very close with all our children.

Interviewer: Where does Amy live?

Gordon: She lives up north near Sawmill. In that area.

Interviewer: She’s in Columbus?

Gordon: Yes.

Interviewer: OK. That must have been an exciting trip to Israel.

Gordon: Unbelievable. Yes. Right.

Interviewer: That’s wonderful.

Gordon: And we’ll be going back in two years for Jamie’s bat mitzvah.

Interviewer: Terrific. So you know what to do now.

Gordon: Right. We did the whole thing. Camel riding and everything.

Interviewer: And you have it all recorded; I know that. Let’s talk about your marriage. How did you meet your wife and where were you married? Give us some background on that.

Gordon: I met my wife in Columbus; was introduced by Howard Schoenbaum who I knew, played ball with Howard, and by Maxine Freidman Schoenbaum, and who I knew and who Betty was I believe a dorm mate up at Ohio State University. So they knew each other before and we met in May the 8^th, 1951. We were engaged July the 4^th, 1951. We were married September 16^th, 1951.

Interviewer: Wow, you have that down pat, that’s great. Maxine’s better know as…

Gordon: Mickey.

Interviewer: Mickey Schoenbaum. And where was your weeding, where did you get married?

Gordon: We were married at Rodesh Shalom Temple in Youngstown, Ohio. And we have lived in Columbus; we lived briefly for six months in Youngstown.

Interviewer: Who were her parents?

Gordon: Emil and Lillian Jacobs. Emil died in 1970 and Lillian died, I think, in 1994 at the age of 90. She lived here in Columbus, moved here in the mid 50s and we were close to her as was Betty’s sister, Maxine Bally, who lives in Columbus.

Interviewer: Were there only two in that family? Betty and her sister?

Gordon: Right. Betty and her sister.

Interviewer: Does her sister have a family here?

Gordon: Maxine has two children, one lives in New York and the other lives in Columbus, Jason and Jennifer.

Interviewer: OK. Tell us about your jobs. What kind of work did you do and are you still working? Give us your career background.

Gordon: I was a…when I first got out of the service I went to work for Bunny and Lou Ruben. First, I worked for Roy’s Jewelers for five months and then worked for Bunny and Lou Ruben at Sol Ruben’s gun shop, pawn shop, jewelry shop, sporting goods and luggage shop.

Interviewer: Where was that located?

Gordon: East Long Street which was originally belonged to Sol Ruben who was one of the finest men that ever lived. I worked for Bunny and Lou and Rose Ruben for two and a half years. And then I had my own business for a few years, I was in the freezer and then got into the real estate business for about a year and a half and then fell into, I accidentally got into the liquidation business which I did until 1987 when I retired.

Interviewer: What kind of liquidation? What was…

Gordon: Used to liquidate stores, merchandise, store fixtures, anything that came down the pike. Very interesting business; never had a day where I begrudged getting up; I enjoyed everything. There are problems, you know, sometimes you didn’t have good days, but I never had a day where I said, "Boy, do I have to get up today and go to work?"

Interviewer: So, it was a little bit of a challenge?

Gordon: All kinds of interesting acquisitions and so forth. Just a lot of, it was a fun thing.

Interviewer: And you were independent all those years?

Gordon: Right.

Interviewer: Where were some of or all the homes you and Betty have lived in?

Gordon: Betty and I lived in Chesterfield Apartments for maybe two years after we were married. Then we moved to 57 North Merkle Road and lived there for about 30 years, and moved out to Touville where we are now sitting about 11 years ago.

Interviewer: You’ve been here 11 years?

Gordon: Been here 11 years.

Interviewer: OK, let’s go back to your military service. Tell us, give us some background on that.

Gordon: Well, I did mention military because there were four of the five brothers, my oldest brother was 37 years old, I believe, he was overage to be inducted into the military; he tried to enlist but they wouldn’t take him because of his age. I guess they didn’t need them at that time, but my three other living brothers, Mick or David, Russ, Petey and myself were all in the service at the same time.

Interviewer: What was that, give us a year.

Gordon: 19…from 1942 to 1946. I went in 43 until 46 and, I think, Mick and Petey and Russ went in 42. I was the youngest when I got out of school and then I did go into the military. My brother Dave was in, I think, the field artillery, I’m not certain, but he was a doctor in the field artillery. And Russ and Petey were both in the Air force and then I went to, got commissioned at Cornell University at Ithaca, New York and had amphibious duty in the Pacific, mostly in the Phillipine area, Borneo.

Interviewer: So you saw some action there?

Gordon: A little bit. Just a little bit.

Interviewer: Do you ever attend reunions of military personnel?

Gordon: No, never have attended one.

Interviewer: So are you in touch with anybody at all that you were in the service with?

Gordon: I ran into a couple of times and spoke to, communicated with one fellow who was aboard my ship who served under me, by the name of Jesse Cole. He became a judge and just retired down in Pike County, Ohio.

Interviewer: What was his last name?

Gordon: Cole. Jesse Cole.

Interviewer: Kind of put that all aside.

Gordon: Right. I didn’t keep in touch with anybody. It was kind of unusual. On our ship we had a complement of 55 men which was five officers and 50 men. We were a flotilla commander, we were LSM which is a landing ship medium, which is not a big ship, it was 208 foot long. We had 36 LCI which was landing craft infantry underneath. However, on our ship, of the five officers, three of us were Jewish.

Interviewer: That was interesting.

Gordon: That was kind of interesting.

Interviewer: Kind of elevated your position there.

Gordon: Whatever.

Interviewer: A little bit of hard work gets you some place. Let’s talk about your youth when you were in high school, junior high school. Did you become active in athletics or organizations of different kinds? Can you fill us in on that?

Gordon: Well, when I was in junior high school I played what they called American Legion little league baseball and then the boys I grew up, we had a club, the ball players and neighbors and so forth called the Eastside AC, Eastside Athletic Club. Then we became the Eastside Boosters and then we got sponsors and had softball teams and did extremely well for a young team. We went to the finals at the average age of 19 years in 1941, I believe it was, to the central district finals and lost in the finals. We weren’t given a chance but we were just very, a bunch of guys who wanted to play real hard and hustle. We were sponsored later on by Kahn Jewelers. Ray handled it all but he sponsored our team which I said was mostly non-Jewish.

Then after the war, well, in high school I played three sports. I played baseball, football and wrestled. And I was fortunate enough to be All-Columbus in football and the entire central district of Ohio heavy weight wrestling champion.

Went up to Ohio State, played on the freshman team in 1942 which was suppose to have been the outstanding freshman team ever at Ohio State University, which included fellows like Lou Groza, Touchdown Tommy Phillips, Tony Adamle and so forth who later played with the Cleveland Browns. Then in 1943, in the Spring, I played in the varsity with Bill Willis who was All-American, All-Pro, who was from Columbus.

And then went into service; played football at Ohio Wesleyan University when I was in the service.

Got out of the service and still played ball; played with some of the best teams in Columbus. Played in the fast-ball league in the United States, which was the national fast-ball league, and also one of my greatest thrills, accomplishments, honors, was having been chosen to play with the 740 AC in 1947, I believe. They took me to the state tournament, softball tournament and 740 AC had been an all African-American, all black team which we’d known at that time. They picked up two players which was myself and another fellow who was white. The following year we committed to playing with them and he reneged because of a lot of pressures which I had too. I had pressures not to play with this black team, it would look bad for you and so forth. And a lot of the pressures were by local Jewish people. However, I made a commitment. But, the honor was not that they were black but to play with the finest team in this part of Ohio, and maybe best in Ohio and in the country. So, I did that. Played in the Sunday morning league, softball, which was a Jewish league started, I think, in 1932. Frank Insurance was the first champions. I played with a couple of different teams, Green Katz and Champion Antiseptic. I managed nine teams in nine years, we won seven championships, so softball was a great sport for me as well as wrestling. That’s pretty much what I did.

Interviewer: That’s quite an accomplishment for a young Jewish man who had to earn a living too with all this. Were any of your sports able to earn you any scholarships or income?

Gordon: Well I was offered, I went down to Ohio U. and played there for two weeks and then was injured. I was there on a full scholarship. Then when I went up to Ohio State, they were going to supplement me. But I didn’t need to because I then went into the service. Then when played with some different teams it was amateur but they did reimburse us a little bit with expenses I guess. Kind of whatever that might have been. It wasn’t semi-pro, but then I also played one game at Ohio State at Columbus Clippers which was the Redbird Stadium against the King and His Court, the greatest four-man softball team. They played nine-man ball teams and won 80 or 90 percent of their games. But that’s another story. But that was interesting.

Interviewer: You mentioned the Clipper Stadium. Is that what is now know as Cooper Stadium?

Gordon: Cooper Stadium, Clipper Stadium, Redbird Stadium when I was a little boy, 10, 12, 14 years old we use to go to the ball games out there which I imagine Bernie did too. They use to have what was called the Knot Hole Gang and you got in for a nickel or a dime or whatever it was.

Interviewer: Still located in the same place?

Gordon: Yeah, West Mound Street. Same stadium which is now called Cooper.

Interviewer: I think it’s called Cooper Stadium.

Gordon: It’s called Cooper, right.

Interviewer: Well, it sounds like you had a colorful athletic background.

Gordon: Yes. I enjoyed athletics very much.

Interviewer: Going back again a little trying to bring some nostalgia into this, do you remember how you traveled around this city? Did you have a car as a young man? Did you travel by bus?

Gordon: I did not have a car. My parents never had an automobile. My oldest brother had a car because he was on the road; he went on the road, as I said, when he was 17. He traveled North Dakota, South Dakota, Kansas, what was called I think the Midwest at that time and maybe so today. But we never had an automobile. I remember when I was maybe five years old, I was not a good traveler, I got ill in an automobile, you know, I still don’t like to travel in the back seat of a car. I remember one time, my father, we went for a ride in a friend’s car out in the country and I became ill. But we never had a car.

We never bought a bicycle, but had bicycles because we went to the junkyard and picked up a frame and we would pick up spokes and we would put bikes together. That’s how we got our bicycles.

What was the other part of your question? Something with, oh, how we got around town. We took the streetcar. This was the streetcar that had a pole at the top which was attached to a wire a wire cable. We paid as children three cents to ride on the streetcar. If you were an adult it was six cents. If you bought tickets, I think it was six tickets for a quarter. Incidentally, we, as I said, I grew up in an Orthodox family and I tell this to some Orthodox people, they don’t remember this, but we never, as a kid, I never would have money and not, when I said never have money, if I had ten cents or twenty cents, would never carry it in my pockets on Shabbas; never carry it in my pockets.

Interviewer: You weren’t allowed to have money.

Gordon: That’s right; would never think about riding. My father died, I said, when I was 11 years old and I said Kaddish for him every morning and every night and walked from Ohio Avenue and Fulton to Washington and Donaldson. Once in a while we’d get a ride from Abe Topolosky who lived right next to Son’s Drugs on Main and Ohio who’s from Joe Topy and Harry Topy and Sanford Topy’s uncle and so forth. But we did have roller skates, we use to get around. I worked when I was 15 years old for Charlie Michaelson on the corner of Sixth and Main in a second-hand store and use to roller skate there. Or maybe jump on the back of a bumper or hold onto the back of a bumper and pull myself down Bryden Road as far as I could and then roller skate the rest of the way by myself.

Interviewer: Doesn’t sound safe, but we didn’t have seat belts then either, did we?

Gordon: No, no.

Interviewer: But we created a lot of our own activity without too much equipment, didn’t we? Always played games; there was always someone to play with.

Gordon: Absolutely. Then the neighbors, we always had a ball game. I remember my brother Russ, who I said, was seven years older than I. He played around the school ground, you know, when I was much younger but in the same groups of neighborhood people. Use to go over and watch him play every night, you know. Then we would play and run around the school yard on the gravel school yard. That’s what is was, gravel, barefoot; never bothered us, you know, our feet were strong.

Interviewer: Tough. Did your mother always work at home? Is that how you remembered?

Gordon: She, yes, I remembered my mother very well and she had probably had more friends than anybody I know in all. She was friendly, as I said, with Rose Ruben, Goldie Goldman, Goldie Ruben. Our house was a gathering spot for everybody in Columbus, and I’m saying that facetiously. But there were people at our house all the time. My mother had more friends than anybody.

Interviewer: Well, you started out with having your own group right there. What are some of your recollections about Schoenthal Center? That seemed to be an important meeting place. As a youngster did you participate in a lot of activity there? Schoenfeld Center.

Gordon: In regards to the Schoenfeld Center on 555 East Rich, I have very little recollection of that. I only remember one time lived only half a block, I said I was born at 607; I remember walking up the street and picking some flowers along the curb and going to the Schoenfeld Center, but I don’t have very little recollection. I do remember later maybe when I was 15 years old use to go there and they had a gymnasium behind the center and the gymnasium was probably the size of, the entire building behind the Schoenfeld Center, was maybe the size of just maybe a four bedroom house. It was a very small place. But they also, I have a picture, it was probably taken about 1922 of the workshop they had at the Schoenfeld Center because the brother I had who died when he was 12 was in that picture. It shows the white ceramic walls and so forth. But, I remember Rose Sugarman directed, was in charge of the Schoenfeld Center. Later on before they built the new center on College Avenue…

Interviewer: The new Jewish Center as we knew it.

Gordon: The new Jewish Center, right, before they built that, Doc Cheroff was in charge of the Schoenfeld Center on Rich Street.

Interviewer: Cherroff. How do you spell that?

Gordon: Cheroff. Doc, we called him Doc. I don’t know what his first name was. He asked me to take a basketball team up to Canton. Do you know where Canton is?

Interviewer: I’m from Canton. (Laughter)

Gordon: We played, I took a team up there and we played in a tournament against, at Canton.

Interviewer: I probably watched that game.

Gordon: You may have. Then he asked me to form a basketball league. I formed the Jewish Center basketball league at Roosevelt Junior High which I still have articles in the Chronicle about that league. So, I did form that league. We played there for one or two years. And that was probably, no I know it was 1946 or 1947 because when I got out I had majored in physical education and a few of the boys had belonged to KTZ basketball organization asked me to coach a team for them so I did. So I remember those things very well.

Interviewer: Yeah, and what we call now the new Jewish Center you were probably active in that as well.

Gordon: Yes, I was active. As I said, Mayer Rosenthal, my cousin, was the director there and I played softball there. I played a year or two in the AK League and played in the basketball league; they had a basketball league. And we used to go over there. My wife, we’re still members; we’ve always been members even though we don’t go there, haven’t gone there for years. We always went to the swimming pool.

Interviewer: That was always an important part of the Jewish community.

Gordon: Absolutely. And it is still very important.

Interviewer: Sure. Let see I had a thought I wanted to go back too. Do you, can you give us some recollections of how, as a kid, you celebrated holidays?

Gordon: Well, yes, I can remember, I can’t remember holidays with my father, because we lived at 498 South Ohio at that time. I do remember seeing him sitting at the table but he was just very, very sick all the time. But later on I remember sitting around and having the Seders. The Seders were, I remember they were long, and we always had company. When we lived at 213 South Ohio I was crushed, maybe I shouldn’t be divulging this, but it’s a truth. We had a big dining room table and there were probably sitted14 people, and my brother and I had to sit out in the kitchen. There just was not room and we had to sit out in the kitchen, I was just crushed. I would never do that, but my mother had no choice, you know, because she had all these people. I remember in the late 30s in sitting at that table and the news of Hitler moving into the other European countries, Czechoslovakia, and so forth, and listening and heard the families during the holidays. This one specific holiday which was probably Rosh Hashanah or Yom Kippur and I could tell even though I was young and really didn’t know the consequences or outcome might be, but they were talking in hushed voices about what Hitler was doing. But I knew it was very, very frightening at the time. That was in the late 30s.

Interviewer: And that as when things were just starting and they probably had families or knew of families that were still left there.

Gordon: Oh, right, right.

Interviewer: And we didn’t know how serious it was going to become. It just got worse from that point on.

Gordon: It was, you speaking earlier, I was speaking, you were asking, whatever, about my uncle and aunt, and I told you she was active in bringing the new Americans over. There was one fellow who was a classmate in high school named Harry Eckstein and who was related, I believe, he was related to Baum, Eric Baum, who, and, oh, I can’t tell you the different people. But he came over in the late 30s, and he was in my high school and he had a 148 IQ out of 160. He was the brightest guy, probably in the world. And he has since I have found out, because I looked him up six years ago when I MC’d my high school, my 50^th year reunion from East High. I looked him up in Who’s Who in America, he was living in California. He was very close to my aunt and uncle, Dr. and Mrs. Gordon, and he considered them his guardians even though legally they weren’t. He asked them permission t marry a certain woman. He’s since been, he’s on his third marriage now I believe. I have the letter that he wrote to them and the letter she wrote back to him, and but he has written ten books on world economics. When I was in Israel I was speaking to a fellow who was head of the economics department at, in Tel Aviv. He was a guide of ours, he joined with a guide for a day and I asked him if he knew this fellow, and he said he never met him but he was outstanding writer. So that was Harry Eckstein who was a classmate, who was, and he dedicated his first book which I have in the other room to my aunt and uncle.

Interviewer: That’s beautiful tribute. Have you been to Israel before?

Gordon: No, I haven’t, but my wife and daughter, Jodie, and her husband were there in l989. I choose not to go at that time.

Interviewer: So this was a real special thrill?

Gordon: Oh, yes, it was an outstanding experience.

Interviewer: And you’d looked forward to going again.

Gordon: Oh, yes. It was very, very emotional.

Interviewer: I told you I’d start warning you as we get toward the end of the tape, and sometimes this is the difficult part of it and sometimes it goes real easily. I don’t know but whatever you want to make of it, but sometimes we try to talk about, or wrap up with some kind of philosophy or some message you’d like to leave your family, share with your family. Hopefully, you’ll be around many more years and continue to guide them with your warmth and wisdom.

Gordon: Well, I’ll try to say one thing that I could capsulize is when I am gone, from a selfish, thinking, talking about me, I would rather celebrate my life than mourn my death. I have no compunctions or worries about my family being good honorable people. And that’s one thing that I use to lecture my children on is honesty and my wife use to say, don’t bug them, and the kids would say keep talking to me about it. I use to tell them a little saying, philosophizing, to thy own self be true. I just, a lot of people use the expression, and they may be 100 percent right, you get a lot of knaches from your children. I don’t look to my children for knaches. If my children give themselves knaches, I will be happy. I want them to do it for themselves, not for me.

Interviewer: Absolutely, that’s beautiful. Fortunately, for people in our generation, I’m talking about people like you and I, we are able to talk to our children about our background and about our life. Our parents either didn’t have time or the visions they had of their childhood were not the kind they wanted to continue to talk about. Fortunately we’ve been able to do that and I think in doing these interviews that helps prolong those conversations too and gives us something to go on. On behalf of the Columbus Jewish Historical Society, unless you can think of some more things you’d like to add, we’ll….

Gordon: Well, I can’t think of any more to add. I’m sure when you leave I’ll think of 50 more things.

Interviewer: Well, we’ll have to do another tape then.

Gordon: I have a lot more blank tapes if you want to do them now. You in any hurry?

Interviewer: I’ve got a few blanks here too. But, on behalf of the Columbus Jewish Historical Society, I want to thank you and you’ve given us a lot of valuable information. Thanks again.

(End of tape)