INTERVIEW WITH BEN COWALL
This interview for the Columbus Jewish Historical Society Oral History Project with Ben Cowall is taking place on January 7, 1986. The interviewer is Art Levy.
*The first 80% of the original tape did not record.
Cowall: ...The kosher butcher shop there and then the Kroll family had a little grocery store catty-corner from Harry Center's...
Interviewer: On the northwest corner.
Cowall: Let's make it the west, the northwest corner, right. And the Levin's had a fish and chicken place down half a block down the street.
Interviewer: Across from Levin's was Mr. Robin's barbershop.
Cowall: Barbershop, Max Robin's and his brother, Lou Robins.
Interviewer: Lou Robins who's now head of Excello Wines.
Cowall: Excello Wine Company.
Interviewer: Also who has the food outlet? They had a little store next to...
Cowall: They were next door to someone's place, I can't think of the name right now.
Interviewer: Bornstein.
Cowall: Bornstein. Yeah, very fine family. And...
Interviewer: They have the restaurant food supply outlet now.
Cowall: Restaurant food supply outlet, yeah. Then there used to be a Shaychet that had a little place they used to kill the chickens.
Interviewer: Silverman.
Cowall: On Washington Avenue there.
Interviewer: Just south of Levin's, it was in the middle of the block between Fulton and Mound. Fulton and Engler. They were on the corner of the alley.
Cowall: Yeah, yeah, that's right. And then I think there was a, the feed store, Levoff had a feed store on Mound Street.
Interviewer: On Mound Street. Lupers had a grocery store on the corner.
Cowall: On the corner and also the baker shop was next door to that. What a busy business. And then also the Mens' Hebrew Association had a dance hall and an office upstairs above Luper's store.
Interviewer: That's where my mother and father were married.
Cowall: Is that right?
Interviewer: Upstairs.
Cowall: And then the Excelsior Club was on Rich Street.
Interviewer: At the corner of Parsons.
Cowall: Yeah. We used to go to the Schonthal Home which was on...
Interviewer: 555 East Rich Street.
Cowall: And then across, right behind there was a big garage that we used to have a gymnasium there.
Interviewer: A coach house. And it was just big enough for the basketball court there.
Cowall: And the shower room.
Interviewer: What was across the street from Schonthal Center. The cheder.
Cowall: The cheder. That's right. You're right. You're right.
Interviewer: And next door to them was Zalman and Mayer Rosenfeld.
Cowall: That's right. Right. And then the Schonthal Home. I remember when I sold newspapers; I was about nine, eight or nine years old. Dad Schonthal, they called him, lived at the Southern Hotel, I think.
Interviewer: Is that where he lived?
Cowall: Yeah. And then also he made arrangements on the corner of the Southern Hotel, there was a drug store with a little food counter.
Interviewer: Mykrantz.
Cowall: Mykrantz. Art you got a good memory. And also there he made arrangements for any newsboy to come in there and get a glass of milk and a cup of coffee and a donut or a danish roll.
Interviewer: I never knew that. Next you're going to tell me he drove an electric automobile.
Cowall: He sure did. (Laughter)
Interviewer: Did you ever get to the Sunday, Schonthal's on Sunday, he'd walk into that first room and sit down next to that grandfather clock and all the children from his orphanage, next door, would climb all over him. Remember that?
Cowall: That's right. What a wonderful man he was. We had in Third and Main there used to be a big dry goods store there.
Interviewer: I suppose you're going to tell me they used to have a great big cake in the window, about five, six feet tall.
Cowall: That's right. And on their anniversary of every year they had a birthday cake, a big one and they cut up in little pieces so everybody could come in there and get it.
Interviewer: I was small at the time but it seemed to me it was around five or six feet tall.
Cowall: Every bit of it. It filled the whole window, display window. And also Temple Israel, behind that on Third Street started their first Temple there. Then they moved to Bryden, no Parsons Avenue.
Interviewer: Parsons Avenue and Noble.
Cowall: Yeah, you're right. And from there they moved to Bryden Road. I remember Rabbi Gup, Rabbi Tarshish was there and it brings back a lot of memories there.
Interviewer: You see I was born on Engler, 539 Engler, which is the second house east of the flats. There right around from the corner. The flats ran east then they went down to Washington and they ended at Levin's Fish Market there.
Cowall: That's right. That's right.
Interviewer: You mentioned Eisman. Was that your uncle? Eisman?
Cowall: No. It was not an uncle. He was, his wife was sister of my uncle Max's wife and so we used to call him Uncle Mark. Ms. Yenkin. And she made the best gefilta fish. After mom passed away she'd make gefilta fish maybe enough to feed ten or twenty people. And there would always be a kettle at same time. And it was a beautiful... Everybody lived together, everybody helped each other and it was wonderful. The Glassman family, Lou, lived on Fulton Street, between Parsons and, Parsons and Washington. And the Kanters, after they left, Stauring and Washington, moved to Parsons and Fulton. And Myron Trope's father had a little clothing store on Fulton Street there.
Interviewer: Let's see. Harry Center lived a couple doors east of the butcher shop.
Cowall: Next door to the butcher was a family named Cohen.
Interviewer: Ike Cohen, he's a retired army man and his two sisters used to be cashiers at Martin's.
Cowall: That's right.
Interviewer: And then Harry Center and then I think Schottenstein lived in the next house, Ferlich Schottenstein.
Cowall: The Pollacks lived a couple doors down from there and the Davids have lived across the street from me. And the Glassmans lived up in there too.
Interviewer: And the Eismans lived a few doors down.
Cowall: That's right. And Rabbi Yablok.
Interviewer: Yablok lived across the street. But coming back towards Washington Mrs. Cunix had a little deli, a little confectionery.
Cowall: A confectionery right there.
Interviewer: I used to go in there and get chocolate soldiers if I could get a penny.
Cowall: Funny thing about that. What a wonderful woman she was. My father married her after my mother died.
Interviewer: I didn't know that.
Cowall: Yeah, and we lived on Fulton Street at that time. But it did seem that she couldn't take care of six kids, anything like that. That ended the marriage and they had to get a divorce.
Interviewer: Lets see. Also there lived Charlie Ross, lived just a couple doors west of the Cunixs.
Cowall: Charles and Eli. He was a dancer. He and Robinowitz, I mean the Radkin boy, formed a team and traveled quite a bit in the circus.
Interviewer: I didn't know Radkin, I knew he danced, but I didn't know he was that good. I knew that Charlie danced.
Cowall: The two of them, they used to have chain dance which made them very famous. Myer Radkin was an amateur boxer. Very smart little fighter. And then there was the Ross family, R-O-S-S, Sam Ross and Phil Ross and the father was a tailor. And a fellow named Joe Papier had a junkyard at Parsons and Fulton. And catty-corner from there was the Hillelson family who came over from Russia. She and my mother, Aleha Hashalom, were like two sisters. They used to walk back and forth between each other's... Very fine family. And the Greenstein family, Pat and his brother...
Interviewer: And his couple sisters.
Cowall: And a couple sisters. And he became a pharmacist.
Interviewer: He's down in Florida now. His brother is a pharmacist.
Cowall: A pharmacist here in Columbus.
Interviewer: At Washington and Town. At the Ohio Medical Center.
Cowall: That's right.
Interviewer: And coming this way next was Smoler.
Cowall: Matt Smoler.
Interviewer: His father, remember the wagon his father had?
Cowall: No.
Interviewer: His father sold fruits and vegetables out of a horse driven wagon and I remember there were glass windows up and down both sides. Then he'd come this way a little bit, there was Shlonsky. That's Ted Sloan's father. Ted's son is now a orthopedic surgeon.
Cowall: That's right. And they tell me he's very, very fine.
Interviewer: In through there is someplace around Sholansky, the other side of Sholansky's was Yablok and Silverman, I think his name was.
Cowall: It wasn't Silverman.
Interviewer: A Moyel and a Shachet.
Cowall: And Silverman was a furniture salesman, I think, was one of the boys. And then he went to California or someplace. Anyway the Covels were quite active in the synagogue and...
Interviewer: The Covels lived a door or two west of Washington and Fulton, a couple doors west of Kroll's.
Cowall: That's right. The Krolls had the butcher store there.
Interviewer: And there was another company there. I think his name is Buddy...
Cowall: Ethel Glassman, Krakoff lived on Fulton Street.
Interviewer: Buddy, Buddy...
Cowall: Beim? Buddy Beim lived on Ohio Avenue.
Interviewer: No, there's a fellow that lived there that is now in the burlap bag business here in the city and he had brother by the name of Dave. Buddy and Dave.
Cowall: You're not thinking of the Grossmans?
Interviewer: Can't come up with his name, it'll come up after we get through.
But in those days I think about...you knew fifty percent of the Jewish population in Columbus very well.
Cowall: Everybody knew each other.
Interviewer: Of the others, you knew total of about ninety-five, at least, percent, at least of nodding acquaintance. In those days. What a difference than it is today?
Cowall: That's true. Today I think we have about fifteen thousand Jewish people.
Interviewer: Yes, but there is so many of them you don't know.
Cowall: But they are still not so far that you don't know them. New ones come in from New York and Chicago, New Jersey.
Interviewer: Well, that is caused I think...you have the university here, you have Chemical Abstracts, you have, what's the company on King Avenue?
Cowall: Battelle.
Interviewer: Battelle. And you have OCLC, this Ohio online computer thing for all the libraries, actually. And those people always coming into Columbus and leave it.
Cowall: I do remember high school. My brother Joe used to go to on Broad street, right across from the old, called Commerce High. And that was across from the Veteran's Building there, over at COSI there.
Interviewer: That eventually became Central High School, which is gone now.
Cowall: And, yeah, and one of the first Jewish boys that made it to the public eye was Frank, who is a city councilman.
Interviewer: Mel Frank. His wife is still...
Cowall: Augusta Frank. I guess that she's still alive and beautiful kids.
Interviewer: For the Jewish people it comes pretty well.
Cowall: And they've all been very well respected.
Interviewer: You think in today's life, this is 1986, I didn't introduced you yet. In today's world we have head, ex-head of head of the city council, who is Maury Portman. Maury Portman was President of the City Council, for I don't know, eight to twelve years.
Cowall: More than anybody else.
Interviewer: And he's still on City Council.
Cowall: Sam Shlonsky was in the Clerk of Courts.
Interviewer: For a good long time.Excellent reputation. Everybody seemed to know him. Mel Frank was a City Councilman. We didn't know it back around 1933, the AZA group went to throw a minstrel show. And the day before the minstrel, which was a Saturday, somebody told us we needed a licensed to throw a show and it was Saturday. City Council met on Monday. The show was on Sunday. So we called Mel Frank. He said, ‘You go ahead and have the show.' He said, ‘I will see that you get a license when Council meets on Monday night.' In fact beforehand. So, I've never forgotten Mel Frank. I could picture him today with his moustache and his cigar.
Cowall: You know there was another family here that was quite interesting thing, the name was the Goodman family. The mother and father were deaf and dumb and there was a Bugs Goodman and Babe Goodman. And we had a little football team, we used to call it the Wolverines. And they were all Jewish boys. And Bugs was a big boy, he played guard, and he would be on the line. His brother Babe had helped once in a while. But he usually was good on the side line and keep score. I'll never forget we played the deaf and dumb asylum on Town Street near Washington Avenue. It has an iron fence around it. I imagine the fence was about four-foot high.
Interviewer: So he's at least four-foot.
Cowall: Yeah. So we were playing the boys, the deaf and dumb schoolboys. And Babe Goodman was sitting on the side and we got together and the boy that called their signals off in deaf and dumb language, Bugs Goodman would catch the signals and call it off in Jewish to Babe and Babe would call it off to us so we'd all understand what it was. And we were beating them heads on heel until they found out what it was. And as I told you about that four-foot fence; when they took out after us, I cleared that four-foot fence to get away from them.
Interviewer: I think its pretty close to five foot as I remember it. It's still there.
Cowall: We hit that top and over we went and kept on running till we got home. And home was Washington and Fulton Street. That was the center of it.
Interviewer: Well, Ben we've just about gone through both sides of the tape. It's sixty minutes. You have any other thoughts? I didn't even have to ask any questions, you know. I'm sitting here enjoying myself.
Cowall: Well, I'll tell you. I run into every once in a while, like Bill Burnstein and Sam Eisman. The Eisman who was Sam, we called him Shulam, or Shikel, with his brother, and Sarah, who married the Max Robins later on. They lived next door to us on Fulton Street. Right across from the school. And...
Interviewer: Max lived next door to you?
Cowall: No, not Max Robins. The Eisman family, Shulam and Shikel Eisman.
Interviewer: Because Max Robins' family lived next door to us on Gilbert Street.
Cowall: That's right. And... There was another family before the Eismans moved in there. Gintry. The Gintry family. One of the girls, Sarah, I think it was, was a very fine ballet student.
Interviewer: And I heard one was a teacher.
Cowall: Yeah. But, I think Sarah died in a fire. At the school, one of the...caught on fire. It closed. But everybody was so fine. If you had any trouble, if you weren't getting along good or something, you needed some help, everybody would turn around and help you.
Interviewer: That's right. And nobody really had any money in those days.
Cowall: No, no.
Interviewer: You, you as a child, we were fed well, we had a lot of love, a warm place to sleep. But we didn't have a whole lot of extra money sitting around, the way they do today.
Cowall: Nobody wanted to anyway.
Interviewer: That's right. Like I say, we were stupid in those days. We thought we were happy. We have a lot of love and a good family and a good home.
Cowall: And everybody went to shul. Come Shabbas Friday night and Saturday, the women would sit upstairs, the men downstairs. I remember many a time I used to take, my father would give me a siddur, he would turn some pages over at the corner and I used to tell mom what this is...
Interviewer: Yes, I think our children will miss a lot. They have other things today, they have material things. But they don't have the same, the same feeling of childhood as we have.
Cowall: There was another good family here, the Horowitz family, David _______ on Washington, near Donaldson.
Interviewer: Was that Sheiky's family?
Cowall: Sarah, she married a Shwartz man.
Interviewer: Her younger brother is Sheiky.
Cowall: And then the Blank family, they lived somewhere I think on Stauring Street. And on of them married a, she was quite a vocalist, she married an orchestra leader.
Interviewer: She went by the name of Rose Blane.
Cowall: Rose Blane. She was a vocalist. Her brother Moby lived and still lives in California.
Interviewer: So. We've gone through the whole neighborhood.
Cowall: You brought back many, many beautiful memories in my life that... Actually I'd like to run into somebody like you or Lil Burnstein or Shulam Eisman and a few other people we can talk about the old days. It just makes a wonderful feeling.
Interviewer: Yes it does. Shulam had a younger brother that was my contemporary, Oscar. Oscar is out in California now, I bumped into him about every year. I bumped into him. I'm trying to think of some of the other families belong there. I'll think of them afterwards.
Cowall: Well, I'd like to have you do is get a hold of Shulam Eisman, who is listed in the phone book as Sam Eisman. Or Lillian Burnstein. I'd be glad to sit down with them. And I think we could give you, between all of us, give you really a history.
Interviewer: I'll put it down as Eisman, he lives out in Whitehall. Okay, Ben. I think that...
This concludes the interview of Ben Cowall for the Columbus Jewish Historical Society Oral History Project.
